Debian bug report logs - #907, boring messages

Message sent to debian-devel@pixar.com:

Subject: Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services
Reply-To: rdr@legislate.com (Raul Miller), debian-bugs@pixar.com
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Date: Wed, 24 May 95 13:20 GMT
From: rdr@legislate.com (Raul Miller)
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com

Package: netbase
Version: 1.11-1

I just had my mail delivery service turned off for a number of hours
because I upgraded netbase.  In my opinion, the interactive portion of
this upgrade should include some sort of warning as to what services
would be enabled/disabled by this upgrade [e.g. run diff on the
various version of the config files and reduce the results to
something meaningful to the typical user -- or if that's too hard,
just give the user the option of looking at the raw diffs].

--
Raul D. Miller

Message sent:

From: iwj10@thor.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson)
To: rdr@legislate.com (Raul Miller)
Subject: Bug#907: Acknowledgement (was: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services)
In-Reply-To: <m0sEGMR-0004iXC@hydra.legislate.com>
References: <m0sEGMR-0004iXC@hydra.legislate.com>

Thank you for the problem report you have sent regarding Debian GNU/Linux.
This is an automatically generated reply, to let you know your message has
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it to debian-bugs@pixar.com, but please ensure that the Subject
line of your message starts with "Bug#907" or "Re: Bug#907" so that
we can identify it as relating to the same problem.

Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message,
unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system.

Ian Jackson
(maintainer, debian-bugs)

Message sent to debian-devel@pixar.com:

Subject: Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services
Reply-To: tobias@server.et-inf.fho-emden.de (Peter Tobias), debian-bugs@pixar.com
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From: tobias@server.et-inf.fho-emden.de (Peter Tobias)
Message-Id: <9505242019.AA07884@server.et-inf.fho-emden.de>
To: rdr@legislate.com, debian-bugs@pixar.com
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 22:19:14 +0000 (GMT-1:00)
In-Reply-To: <m0sEGMR-0004iXC@hydra.legislate.com> from "Raul Miller" at May 24, 95 01:20:00 pm
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Raul Miller wrote:
> Package: netbase
> Version: 1.11-1
>
> I just had my mail delivery service turned off for a number of hours
> because I upgraded netbase.  In my opinion, the interactive portion of
> this upgrade should include some sort of warning as to what services
> would be enabled/disabled by this upgrade [e.g. run diff on the
> various version of the config files and reduce the results to
> something meaningful to the typical user -- or if that's too hard,
> just give the user the option of looking at the raw diffs].

Hmm.. netbase does not enable or disable services, dpkg should ask
if you want to use your old inetd.conf or the default inetd.conf file
from the netbase package. That's all. If you use the default inetd.conf
file from the netbase package you should always have look at it.


Peter

--
 Peter Tobias                                EMail:
 Fachhochschule Ostfriesland                 tobias@et-inf.fho-emden.de
 Fachbereich Elektrotechnik und Informatik   tobias@perseus.fho-emden.de
 Constantiaplatz 4, 26723 Emden, Germany

Message sent:

From: iwj10@thor.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson)
To: tobias@server.et-inf.fho-emden.de (Peter Tobias)
Subject: Bug#907: Info received (was Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services)
In-Reply-To: <9505242019.AA07884@server.et-inf.fho-emden.de>
References: <9505242019.AA07884@server.et-inf.fho-emden.de>

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
this problem report.  It has been forwarded to the developers to
accompany the original report.

If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem,
please do the same thing again: send it to debian-bugs@pixar.com, ensuring
that the Subject line starts with "Bug#907" or "Re: Bug#907" so that
we can identify it as relating to the same problem.

Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message,
unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system.

Ian Jackson
(maintainer, debian-bugs)

Message sent to debian-devel@pixar.com:

Subject: Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services
Reply-To: rdr@legislate.com (Raul Miller), debian-bugs@pixar.com
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Date: Thu, 25 May 95 14:36 GMT
From: rdr@legislate.com (Raul Miller)
To: tobias@server.et-inf.fho-emden.de
Cc: debian-bugs@pixar.com
In-Reply-To: <9505242019.AA07884@server.et-inf.fho-emden.de> (tobias@server.et-inf.fho-emden.de)

Peter Tobias:
   Hmm.. netbase does not enable or disable services, dpkg should ask
   if you want to use your old inetd.conf or the default inetd.conf
   file from the netbase package. That's all. If you use the default
   inetd.conf file from the netbase package you should always have
   look at it.

Sure, except I just re-installed a whole mess of packages (like 200 or
so).  I can deal with things changing and with changing various config
files to more closely approach ideal behavior.

However, I feel that inetd.conf is a special case.

(a) it bears as strongly on system security as does /etc/passwd.
(b) it controls many services (such as mail delivery) which, while not
interactive, can still be urgently important.
(c) the current handling of this file by debian doesn't preserve
incremental changes by the sysadmin across updates.

My point is that this one particular config file is worthy of special
treatment.

No particular harm was done in my case.  However, I've been on plenty
of systems (sun, hp, ...) which have had mail accidentally disabled
for one reason or another.  Frequently, the sysadmin didn't notice
until I reported the problem (this could take days).  With debian,
we're shooting for a broad installation base -- and I suspect that
this sort of situation will bite a lot of people unless we make some
sort of provision for it.

Perhaps the best thing to do is mail root a list of user editted
config files which have been changed during a dpkg installation.  This
would be a checklist for post-installation admin work.

?

However, I'm not sure this is an adequate solution for mail handling.

--
Raul Miller

Message sent:

From: iwj10@thor.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson)
To: rdr@legislate.com (Raul Miller)
Subject: Bug#907: Info received (was Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services)
In-Reply-To: <m0sEe1T-0004iWC@hydra.legislate.com>
References: <m0sEe1T-0004iWC@hydra.legislate.com>

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
this problem report.  It has been forwarded to the developers to
accompany the original report.

If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem,
please do the same thing again: send it to debian-bugs@pixar.com, ensuring
that the Subject line starts with "Bug#907" or "Re: Bug#907" so that
we can identify it as relating to the same problem.

Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message,
unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system.

Ian Jackson
(maintainer, debian-bugs)

Message sent to debian-devel@pixar.com:

Subject: Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services
Reply-To: iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson), debian-bugs@pixar.com
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Date: Fri, 26 May 95 23:19 BST
From: iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson)
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com

Raul Miller writes ("Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services"):
> [...]
> However, I feel that inetd.conf is a special case.

I agree.  It should be updated much more carefully.  I'd suggest
taking the standard `sophisticated package with much user-edited stuff
in the config files' approach: don't include a copy of /etc/inetd.conf
with the package.  Instead, generate one in the postinst.

If you discover you've made a mistake you have to write a piece of
code to fix the mistake without messing the rest of the file up.

If I can do this for Smail's config files (which are more complicated
than an inetd.conf) the netbase maintainer should be able to do it for
inetd :-).

Certainly the packages I maintain expect to be able to use inetd.conf
to en- and disable services.  (For example, Smail disables mail
service while it is being upgraded, and (re)enables it in the
postinst.)

> [...]
> Perhaps the best thing to do is mail root a list of user editted
> config files which have been changed during a dpkg installation.  This
> would be a checklist for post-installation admin work.

Did you not get a message from dpkg asking you whether you wanted to
replace your inetd.conf ?  What did you reply ?

This is what is supposed to happen if you have edited a file you
install a version with a modified config file.

Ian.

Message sent:

From: iwj10@thor.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson)
To: iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson)
Subject: Bug#907: Info received (was Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services)
In-Reply-To: <m0sF7iu-0000XfZ@chiark.al.cl.cam.ac.uk>
References: <m0sF7iu-0000XfZ@chiark.al.cl.cam.ac.uk>

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
this problem report.  It has been forwarded to the developers to
accompany the original report.

If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem,
please do the same thing again: send it to debian-bugs@pixar.com, ensuring
that the Subject line starts with "Bug#907" or "Re: Bug#907" so that
we can identify it as relating to the same problem.

Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message,
unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system.

Ian Jackson
(maintainer, debian-bugs)

Message sent to debian-devel@pixar.com:

Subject: Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services
Reply-To: rdr@legislate.com (Raul Miller), debian-bugs@pixar.com
Resent-To: debian-devel@pixar.com
Resent-From: rdr@legislate.com (Raul Miller)
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Date: Sat, 27 May 95 14:16 GMT
From: rdr@legislate.com (Raul Miller)
To: iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk, debian-bugs@Pixar.com
In-Reply-To: <m0sF7iu-0000XfZ@chiark.al.cl.cam.ac.uk> (iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk)

Raul Miller
   > Perhaps the best thing to do is mail root a list of user editted
   > config files which have been changed during a dpkg installation.  This
   > would be a checklist for post-installation admin work.

Ian Jackson:
   Did you not get a message from dpkg asking you whether you wanted to
   replace your inetd.conf ?  What did you reply ?

Well, like I said earlier, I installed something like 200 packages in
that run.  I really can't say for sure what I replied.  Clearly,
however, whatever I replied was an affirmative.

More generally, I intended to bring my installation up to a certain
level, and I proceeded with the expectation of winding up with a "more
default" system.

But you seem to understand this.

Perhaps, what would be nice, is an option for the sysadmin to look at
config file diffs (with ${PAGER-more}) before decidiing yes or no to
installing the new config file.  Also, when deciding yes (or no) it
would be nice to be able to follow up with a quick trip to
${EDITOR-ed}.  This business of blind configuration isn't really all
that great.

--
Raul D. Miller

Message sent:

From: iwj10@thor.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson)
To: rdr@legislate.com (Raul Miller)
Subject: Bug#907: Info received (was Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services)
In-Reply-To: <m0sFMfV-0004i6C@hydra.legislate.com>
References: <m0sFMfV-0004i6C@hydra.legislate.com>

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
this problem report.  It has been forwarded to the developers to
accompany the original report.

If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem,
please do the same thing again: send it to debian-bugs@pixar.com, ensuring
that the Subject line starts with "Bug#907" or "Re: Bug#907" so that
we can identify it as relating to the same problem.

Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message,
unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system.

Ian Jackson
(maintainer, debian-bugs)

Message sent to debian-devel@pixar.com:

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Date: Sat, 27 May 95 21:56 BST
From: iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson)
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	<m0sFMfV-0004i6C@hydra.legislate.com>

Raul Miller writes ("Re: Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services"):
> Well, like I said earlier, I installed something like 200 packages in
> that run.  I really can't say for sure what I replied.  Clearly,
> however, whatever I replied was an affirmative.

IC.

> More generally, I intended to bring my installation up to a certain
> level, and I proceeded with the expectation of winding up with a "more
> default" system.
>
> But you seem to understand this.

Err, yes.  I agree with you that this behaviour is bad for inetd.conf
(especially considering the fact that many packages actually modify
inetd.conf, so the user may not even know that it has been modified).

> Perhaps, what would be nice, is an option for the sysadmin to look at
> config file diffs (with ${PAGER-more}) before decidiing yes or no to
> installing the new config file.  Also, when deciding yes (or no) it
> would be nice to be able to follow up with a quick trip to
> ${EDITOR-ed}.  This business of blind configuration isn't really all
> that great.

How about a third option at this stage: shell out in the appropriate
directory, telling the user which is the new and which the old file,
and letting them sort it out using `mv', `rm', `ed', `diff' or
whatever they prefer ?

If the session dies at this point the package will be in a bit of a
mess, but nothing that a reinstall shouldn't sort out.

Ian.

Message sent:

From: iwj10@thor.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson)
To: iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson)
Subject: Bug#907: Info received (was Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services)
In-Reply-To: <m0sFSuD-0000XQZ@chiark.al.cl.cam.ac.uk>
References: <m0sFSuD-0000XQZ@chiark.al.cl.cam.ac.uk>

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
this problem report.  It has been forwarded to the developers to
accompany the original report.

If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem,
please do the same thing again: send it to debian-bugs@pixar.com, ensuring
that the Subject line starts with "Bug#907" or "Re: Bug#907" so that
we can identify it as relating to the same problem.

Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message,
unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system.

Ian Jackson
(maintainer, debian-bugs)

Message sent to debian-devel@pixar.com:

Subject: Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services
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Date: Sat, 27 May 95 18:29 GMT
From: rdr@legislate.com (Raul Miller)
To: iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk, debian-bugs@Pixar.com
Cc: debian-bugs@Pixar.com
In-Reply-To: <m0sFSuD-0000XQZ@chiark.al.cl.cam.ac.uk> (iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk)

Ian Jackson:
   How about a third option at this stage: shell out in the
   appropriate directory, telling the user which is the new and which
   the old file, and letting them sort it out using `mv', `rm', `ed',
   `diff' or whatever they prefer ?

That should work.  You'd probably want to emit a brief paragraph
reminding the sysadmin of some basic assumptions about what they
should be doing and what's ok to do.  And/or, perhaps, include a
reference to some file giving more extensive documentation on the
process.

--
Raul Miller

Message sent:

From: iwj10@thor.cam.ac.uk (Ian Jackson)
To: rdr@legislate.com (Raul Miller)
Subject: Bug#907: Info received (was Bug#907: inetd.conf upgrades may disable services)
In-Reply-To: <m0sFQby-0004i6C@hydra.legislate.com>
References: <m0sFQby-0004i6C@hydra.legislate.com>

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
this problem report.  It has been forwarded to the developers to
accompany the original report.

If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem,
please do the same thing again: send it to debian-bugs@pixar.com, ensuring
that the Subject line starts with "Bug#907" or "Re: Bug#907" so that
we can identify it as relating to the same problem.

Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message,
unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system.

Ian Jackson
(maintainer, debian-bugs)

Ian Jackson / iwj10@thor.cam.ac.uk, with the debian-bugs tracking mechanism

This page last modified 06:43:02 GMT Wed 21 Jun