GUS Daily Digest            Sat, 4 Mar 95  9:37 PST      Volume 20: Issue   4 

Today's Topics:
			<: Memory poll rebuttal and other fun stuff :>
						  AVIs in Windoze...
						  EMM386/QEMM/DOS4GW
					 emulation with GUS's "DDSP"
			Future GUS memory baseline using AMD Interwave
							 Game patches
							GUS vs Tropez?
				 Gus with Aces of Deep\Wings of Glory
						  Memory for GUS...
							Menzoberranzan
						Microprose wimps out!
						   The memeory poll

Standard Info:
	- Meta-info about the GUS can be found at the end of the Digest.
	- Before you ask a question, please READ THE FAQ.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 16:25:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Dave Woldrich <davew@uofport.edu>
Subject: <: Memory poll rebuttal and other fun stuff :>

Well, I'm glad I got a little response to my apparently shocking opinion 
that 4meg should be the GUS2 memory standard..  Let me give some more 
arguments in favor:

   * When the original gus came out, it was shipped with 256K!  This choice
	 was made to accomodate the thrifty folks out there.  BUT, when you 
	 found a beautiful game to play, or wanted some fantastic s3m file to 
	 blast your speakers, you know what you got?!  ......  That's RIGHT!
								  SILENCE
	 The lesson was that you had to go out and spend the 45 or so bucks and
	 get a whole meg!  You couldn't get away with being cheap.  Sad, but 
	 true.
   * I know this is gonna make you cry, but .. Developers of software 
	 don't give a CAT'S A** about catering to you!!  If it's easy to develop 
	 for the card, AND if there's a big base of people who own the card, 
	 then THEY will MAKE MONEY!!  Simple capitalism.  So, if they have lotsa  
	 samples to play -- more than one meg for instance, then developers will 
	 demand that you get more ram for their game!!  Microsoft plays games 
	 like this with consumers all the time, (upgrade to the 486 or you cant 
	 run our Windows good), and are THEY losing money?!  THLPT!!  P'SHAW!!  
	 Do you think game companies are exempt from such behavior if they have 
	 a legitimately superior product to sell?!  NO WAY, JOSE!!  How do I 
	 know this is true?  I worked for a game company, and I asked why the
	 GUS wasn't supported by them .. and that's what I was tol
  
   Think of it like this .. if a game company throws a great game out on 
   the market that you cant resist, and you've got the card to play the 
   game .. but not enuf ram .. what are you gonna do?  Play in silence, or 
   upgrade the ram!!  Why not just accept it!!  THAT'S why I think the GUS2 
   should come with lotsa ram installed..  Thrift = silence when it 
   comes to this issue, IMHO.  Anybody wanna change their votes yet?!  :>'

Three other things while I'm talking..
	 Whoever has them HUGE sigs.. NUKE `EM!!  They're annoying as HELL!  
	   That guy with the big RAF in his sig, and the guy with the big, ugly 
	   race car come to mind.  Jeez, how about a little economy..
	 Senate bill 314 petitions do NOT belong on a GUS discussion list...  
	 And, even if you're a new user.. PLEASE don't quote the entire previous
	   day's digest in your reply.  That's lame too..

Hope I made you think a second time.

David Woldrich    (davew@wally.uofport.edu)  |  Majoring in Computer Science 
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
		 "Uh ... d'they do that with LASERS?!?!"  -Dave Letterman 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 17:15 -0500
From: DANTONIO@PROCESS.COM (Momentary Language, Sexual Situations)
Subject: Re: AVIs in Windoze...

Well, the only responses I recieved to my problem with AVI files starting
out muted basically said to use a smaller buffer size. I tried 512 but it
didn't change anything (and I didn't expect it to). The trouble is that the
AVI starts out muted. Pausing and continuing causes the sound to pick up
fine. Windows 3.1, VFW 1.1D, GUS 3.59 software...Any other ideas?

DDA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 15:36:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Lance Kalzus <kqy5125@is.NYU.EDU>
Subject: EMM386/QEMM/DOS4GW

Well, the thing is that people know that DOS4GW requires no memory 
managers.  But the point of this whole QEMM thingie is that DOS4GW 
programs that use the GUS often _fail_ to work if QEMM is your memory 
manager, whereas they work fine if EMM386 is your expanded memory manager.

Besides, having EMM386 or some other UMB server means you get back more of
that <640KB memory, which is just nice to have in general, even if you're
using a protected-mode program. 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 01:52:49 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter C. Chien Jr." <pchienjr@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: emulation with GUS's "DDSP"

: Some soundcards use DSP to emulate Soundblaster and GM. Since the Gus
:Max also has a DSP, is it possible to enhance current emulation
:of soundcards using the DSP on the Max?
 
Yes, I believe SBOS does this already, which could explain why it is able 
to work with *some* protected mode games, being a partially hardware 
implementation.  But in terms of using the GUS's DDSP in a completely 
programmable way, I don't think it's possible because it is a DDSP, and 
can only do fixed things really well (as opposed to SB's ASP, which can 
potentially do many things -- poorly).  BTW, I have yet to see any SB 
programs or games that actually *specifically* use the ASP chip, but compare 
this to the GF1, which, by definition of the GUS itself, is *always* used to 
the max.  No pun intended.
						-Peter

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 14:28:24 MST
From: tschmidt@pefs1.micron.com (Tom Schmidt)
Subject: Future GUS memory baseline using AMD Interwave

I agree that the baseline memory for the future GUS using the AMD
Interwave chipset should be 1MB as well.  The board should be designed to
include 4 SIMM sockets, with one used for the baseline 1MB SIMM.  Users
can add more memory using standard 70ns or 80ns 30-pin 1MB or 4MB SIMMs to
expand the memory up to the maximum 16MB.  This would keep the initial cost
down still, but users can easily upgrade it using standard parts.  It
should accept either by-8 or by-9 SIMMs, although the parity bit would not
be used.  This would allow you to use SIMMs from the motherboard of your old
386 computer :) .  It should also allow you to mix 1MB and 4MB SIMMs.

Since I work for a DRAM manufacturer, it would be nice to say "stuff it to
the gills to sell more DRAM", but if it shipped with the full 16MB, it would
cost more than the average user would ever want to spend, and the average
user would never use it's full memory capacity.  Musicians and computer
addicts, on the other hand, can easily upgrade the memory to the max using
standard commodity DRAM SIMM modules.  It should sell for under $250 (US)
in order to be appealing to the consumer who is comparing it to a SB-AWE.

I am both a GUS lover and a computer addict.  I'd stuff it to the max if I
bought it and felt I needed the full amount of memory.

						Tom

_____      ___     Tom L. Schmidt, Manager, Component Characterization
  |  |    /   \    Micron Technology, Inc.
  |  |    \___     2805 E. Columbia Rd.  Mail Stop 376  P.O. Box 6
  |  |        \    Boise, Idaho USA  83707-0006
  |  |____\___/    tschmidt@pefs1.micron.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 15:43:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Lance Kalzus <kqy5125@is.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Game patches

Someone yesterday (okay, today, but this message will appear in the 
digest "tomorrow" :) asked about patches to make these games GUS-native:

Tie Fighter
X-Wing
X-COM
Dark Forces

Tie Fighter:
   It just about is "GUS-native" since it comes with a special version of 
Mega-EM optimized for Tie Fighter.  Sounds great.

X-Wing:
   There are some problems in X-Wing (which actually do affect all sound 
cards) which would make you want to get the xwngsnds.zip file.  This file 
includes several "patches" (sound effects, really: LucasArts pulled a 
stupid when they thought that embedding SB sound effects into the music 
would work for everything) to fix some of the sound effects.  Still 
doesn't sound great with Mega-Em, but at least it works.

X-Com:
   The bug left by the European OEM guys who built UFO:EU was left 
undetected when MicroPoser Software ported it to America.  There is a 
patch available for UFO:EU, but it requires UFO:EU.  If you replace the 
kernel first, using the UFO1-2.ZIP update files, you should be able to 
apply this patch, and get the sound effects working properly in the 
Battlescape scenes.  But for music, I guess not.  The guys who wrote 
UFO:EU didn't think about it, and you can't run SBOS and do native GUS at 
the same time.

Dark Forces:
   No deal, at least on the demo version.  The best you can do is use 
MaxSBOS for sound (DF runs in protected-mode, so forget Mega-Em (GRAVIS 
ARE YOU LISTENING!?!?!?!?), the music sounds terrible.

	"Invisible airwaves crackle with life
	 Bright and tender, bristle with the energy
	 Emotional feedback on a timeless wavelength
	 Bearing a gift beyond price that's almost free" -- Rush

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 16:54:39 -0800
From: ASHLEY <DAPARISH@BIIVAX.DP.BECKMAN.COM>
Subject: GUS vs Tropez?

My .02$ on the GUS and questions about Tropez?:
I've been following this list since before the first GUS came out. (about 18
mos?) since I had no immediate needs for a sound card and since the GUS sounded
so tempting in terms of sound, I have put off buying one, until Gravis had
sorted out there initial problems with the GUS.  Well guess what, I'm still
waiting, but I'd ready to get a soundcard.
I planned to use it for a few Games (doom etc), multimedia apps and
maybe even with a midi keyboard as a piano (hoping to persuade my wife not to
buy a real piano).
IMHO I half expected Gravis to pop for the $10 worth of chips needed to put SB
clone emulation in hw on the board by now. Perhaps the AMD interwave has
SB/OPL3 emulation in hw. It is clear that SB emulation in sw has a number 
of "challenges".

Last week I saw mention of the Tropez card, which sounds like what the GUS
should be by now:
	SB emulation (hw?). midi i/f. E-IDE i/f for CDROM. about $200.
	16 bit 48k wave synth with 2meg rom, up to 12 meg ram (simm slots).

I plan to put a 4x cdrom on a PCI EIDE controller, ie get all the video and
CDROM i/o onto a different bus, having the ISA bus dedicated to audio.
I know this is the GUS list not sc.advocacy, but GUS users are typically more 
informed on wave boards and comparisons.
Anyone seen any reviews on the Tropez or GUS vs Tropez comparisons? 
Any listening comparisons ? Flame me if you like, but not on the digest 
(hey: consider it a break from where are the win 95 drivers).
Ashley Parish
  ,___  
	o/   |> .....mind if I play through?
	|    |
	>\   | 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 95 01:42 GMT
From: haydn@cix.compulink.co.uk (Haydn Evans)
Subject: Gus with Aces of Deep\Wings of Glory

In-Reply-To: <memo.615789@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Hi Mark,
Problems with Sierra games.
There are two sets of drivers available for the GUS for use with Sierra 
games, one for 16bit games and one for 32bit games.
They are:
GUSDRV.EXE for Sierra games that support General MIDI (16bit). 
GUS32.EXE  for Sierra 32bit games.
Have you tried these?

						]-[aydn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 12:49:13 -0600
From: bbaskin@mail.utexas.edu (Bryan K. Baskin)
Subject: Memory for GUS...

Hey Y'all,

Sorry i didn't send in my vote earlier, but i think for affordabilities
sake, 1 or 2 megs would be good. But i must say this: 4MB RAM does NOT cost
$300. Jesus! I sell 4MB 72pin SIMMs for about $160. 30pin memory sould be
similarly priced. Me thinks someone out there is getting ripped off.

One more thing. Calling Win95 a "great OS" is probably pushing it, but it is
good to hear that Gravis will the drivers ready whenever it ships, most
likely in November... (Yup, that's the lastest word...)

Follow the advice in the previous digest and make a multi-config boot. Its
not hard and it saves a bit of time later on, not to mention floppies. Or
run the games in a DOS VDM under OS/2, most work fine and if a game requires
32MB of EMS, tell it and its yours. Same with XMS and DPMI, regardless of
how much memory you actually have. Cool, eh?

To anyone with the ACE, i haven't seen it in stores yet, whats the asking
price? And does it have the CD-ROM audio pin connectors on it? Thanks.

Later.
												  Baskin -)
												  The University of Texas at 
												  Austin
												  Team OS/2

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 20:49:44 +0100
From: emilr@ksnet.ksedb.no (Emil Rakoczy)
Subject: Menzoberranzan

Has anyone got GUS sound on Menzoberranzan, SSI?
Please mail me if you got the solution.

Lurking Puppet saz whut?

d8']

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 21:40:31 PST
From: Ed Haymore <efh@quake.net>
Subject: Re: Microprose wimps out!

It looks like "support@microprose.com" is a valid address -- I'd
suggest it as a good starting place to let them know how you feel.

-- 
Ed Haymore     |   Duct tape is like the Force.  It has a light side
efh@quake.net  |   and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 02:02:23 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter C. Chien Jr." <pchienjr@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: The memeory poll

:Returns:
:  256K?!!?   :  1       (silly person!)
:  1meg       :  10!     (Why?)
:  2meg       :  1       (You're getting warm..)
:  4meg       :  1 + me  (Y-Y-Y-YES!!!)
: 
:Four megabytes should be the Gravis/AMD nextgeneration card/chip's base
:installed ram.  Why?!  To give developers a nice comfy standard of ram
:that they can play with.  Hopefully, Gravis will offer all of its
:customers a nice upgrade price from their GUS/max to a GUS2 (or whatever
:it will be called)  That way, we can reverently retire the GUS and begin
:pushing the new standard!  But more memory is a key factor here, and I
:believe cost should not be an issue especially with respect to the memory.
:We need more memory for midi patches, more memory for sampling, and a
:standard four megs is a nice comfortable middle ground.

Well, there's really no point in conducting a poll, if you're begging the 
question.  True, 4 megs really is desirable.  But since most people want 
1 meg (most, as in most of the measly number of 15 people who actually 
participated, myself included), it's 1 meg that's the standard.  Besides 
memory is really easy to self-upgrade should anyone truly need it 
(perhaps for other things besides games).  And RAM prices are always 
fluctuating, so people may prefer to get RAM by themselves rather than 
buying it through a soundcard package.  (Once I've seen 16 megs being 
sold for $400!)  Anyway, 1 meg is the absolute basest memory acceptable, 
but 4 megs is more comfortable, but again, a do it yourselfer.

						-Peter

P.S. Would Gravis actually listen (i.e., implement the suggestion) to this 
poll?

------------------------------

End of GUS Daily Digest V20 #4
******************************
